#17: Why Choose Biophilic Living and the Benefits to our Society (with Daniela Rodriguez)
Episode Shownotes
I *need* to share the concept of biophilic living with you.
I am so excited by this episodes guest, Daniela Rodriguez, who explains how it’s infusing spaces with nature—creating spaces that are alive.
She completely understands that it's not possible—or even desirable—for us all to move into a cabin in the woods. However through her work and her business Forest Homes, she is bringing biophilic living to our chosen homes and making us happier, healthier, and calmer.
For her, sustainable living and nature are one of many callings. Her Masters thesis was on behavioural change in sustainable attitudes, and she is driven to bring nature closer to peoples daily lives. She’s run Forest Homes for almost four years, and shares the challenges and realities of running your own business, especially one with a greater purpose.
Tune in for inspiration on how to bring more nature into your homes, a pep talk for new business owners, and
“I think we can always be wilder. I think the world needs more freedom.”
Connect with Daniela Rodriguez on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/forest.homes.store/
or visit the Forest Homes store here: https://www.foresthomesstore.com/
Let’s continue the conversation at https://www.instagram.com/emilypeilan/
Meet fellow Freedom Nomads on a unique retreat experience, join here: https://www.freewildsouls.com/retreats
Create more freedom by learning how to attract more website traffic and ideal clients with my free Website & SEO checklists: https://www.arohavisuals.com/resources
Episode Transcript
Emily: Hello, my beautiful friends and welcome back to another guest episode. Today we have Daniela, who is she is just such a sweet soul. And it's quite a hilarious story how we met. We dive into that in the first part of the episode. But what really intrigued me about what Daniela does is she infuses city life with biophilic living or this concept of biophilic living and creating spaces that are alive. And so we talk a lot about this concept why it's important the benefits of infusing your your space with nature.
We also talk about a little backstory of her and her husband having come from Venezuela, and then moving to France and finally moving to Portugal, starting their own businesses together, they each run their own business, what that's like to sort of work together as a couple, but also individually and for Daniella what that's like to have a product based business in in Portugal, and what that was, like just just starting it, the challenges of of running it.
And yeah, just advice for those still in their 20s or those who are looking to move move countries or start their own businesses. Well, she we share a lot of really beautiful, deep perspectives in this episode. So I hope you enjoy it. And I'll see you on the other side. So Daniela, welcome to the free world sells podcast. Thank you so much for being here.
Daniela: Thank you so much for having me, Emily. Super happy to to be here with you.
Emily: So yeah, we met recently. Just by chance actually got invited to have dinner with some friends of theirs. I was hitchhiking and randomly got picked up and invited to their beautiful crew of people. And yeah, we got chatting. And I asked her kind of like, Oh, so you know, what do you do? And she introduced this idea of this word Biophilia? And I was like, Oh, what is that? super fascinating. I'd never heard it in my life.
But when she explained it to me, I just was totally in love with the concept. And so I think a lot of people don't know what Biophilia is. So, yeah, I'd love to hear you explain it in your own words, like, what is it? Is it a concept? Is it a scientific term?
Daniela: Yeah, so Biophilia basically means our love for, for life. So we basically as humans are more attracted to alive things, if you think about it. When you look at an animal or a plant that's more fascinating for you naturally than things that are manmade. So recently, they discover that Biophilia basically this love for for nature, innate love for nature, can do very positive things in many different areas. So in medicine and productivity in students, so a lot of it was very motivating, for me to learn and keep learning. So that's why I, I decided to learn from it more.
Emily: And so with Biophilia. It's kind of like you the love for things that are alive? And how have you incorporated that into say, your life and your business as well? Because you would you say the products you sell, like their Biophilia product? Or how would you like how did you integrate that into your business?
Daniela: So I mean, anything that it's natural, or it's made with, with a little bit of thought behind can be made into a more like a place or an environment that it looks more like nature. So what we actually do in our business, our project is help people understand how they interact with the items and how this item has an impact on them. So let's say for example, wouldn't floors, how they convey more calm, like how they can bring. They can bring feelings of safety, for example, when you get into contact with work. So a lot of these things that we don't know about our building materials, it's part of biophilic design. So if you were more into like explaining those benefits, then you will be given an biophilic approach. So it's more like a biophilic approach than biophilic products.
Emily: Ah, okay, gotcha. Cool, that makes more sense. And so so you've got your own business called forest homes, and they're, you sell these incredible, beautiful products. And the goal with that is to create a calming spaces. Was that always did you start off kind of with this intention, or had you had a few other best business ventures beforehand, before you kind of decided this is what you love to do what you're passionate about.
Daniela: So I studied chemical engineering, as I told you a few minutes ago. And I've always been very passionate about materials like what, what materials and how we interact to them. So that started with food, for example, like, I'm always very curious about what the certain foods do to us and how we respond to, to this, like how we respond to anything.
So like, from a very young age, like I've been, my mom makes fun of me, like, I used to, like read every every single packaging of things is like a we cannot buy, like a little five year old, you know, telling you like, we cannot buy this thing, it has this thing like so. Yeah, I've always been very passionate about this. So it's like, I think for me.
I follow the career path quite, quite mixed, you could say because I graduated from chemical engineering, and I started working in, in like, plant, it was we were transforming energy from from oil to gas and electricity. And I didn't like this. And then I moved into the farm, like, working farmer. And this was I mean, at the at the moment, I wasn't really involved with the pharmaceuticals, but more with the chemicals that build the pharmaceuticals. And yeah, that was also not really my thing.
But I got in contact with the part of business that I didn't have, like, I was very a very technical person, very scientific. Real, like, go into the scientific face of things like aspects. So this show me like, okay, like, this business part is interesting. And, and also, like, I've always, always wanted to have my own business, you know, I've always like from a very, very young age, like, since I can think of like, being in like, having, like, 13 years old, maybe and like thinking about how I'm gonna create my business how I'm gonna do it. I used to write it in like notebooks.
Emily: So funny. But this is your first business venture.
Daniela: Yes, yes, it is. And, yeah, so I started like, this working farmer made me think, okay, like, maybe I have to develop design, like this side of business, because if I'm gonna do my own project, there's nothing I can do with like, being so scientific and not being able to have like, like, sell what I'm when I'm selling, because I realised I was so bad at selling. So I decided to do a master's in marketing.
Emily: This is all when you're back in Venezuela still?
Daniela: No, you I did it in France. So I started my my masters in France. And, and yeah, I when I when I was studying marketing and looking at all of these, what marketing is I was like, we need to marketing is super interesting, because it's all about the human behaviour basically.
So you need to really understand people and how they respond to things and how we have this irrational way. So of taking decisions and all of the things. I love this part also like understanding how we work and why we do certain things that don't make any sense.
And you see so many brands using these techniques, and I was like, we cannot like, I wanted to use this techniques for for good things. Yeah, positive. Yeah. Yeah. So I actually did did a thesis on behavioural change on sustainable, sustainable attitudes. So what it took for people to change, sustainable behaviour. So that was my thesis, which was really hard work. And it was really interesting to do.
So yeah, at that point, you know, like, all of this, you know, this path human behaviour, materials, how we interact with things.
Emily: And also your love for sustainability.
Daniela: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I then, after I, after my studies, I worked for a company in energy, and we were actually connecting containerships to electricity. So they didn't pollute the cities like burning fuel.
So they connect the ships to the shore to electricity instead of having them powered by by by fuel on the because when they arrive to the to the port, usually ships keep on running on fuel, of course. So that really makes a lot of emissions.
And you see the same, like cities become really polluted. So we were working on the solution, super interesting. And me and my husband, we decided to go on, on a sabbatical year, basically. So we were like, we spent almost a year like really much in nature. Like we were supposed to visit all the cities and supposed to, like, do silly stuff. But we didn't want to leave the city like the nature. Where were you, by the way.
So we did a trip north of north of Europe. We we started in France, and we went all the way up to the North Pole. And we like Norway's sky. Exactly. So we went to like actually, when it says Welcome to welcome to the North Pole, and you can get up there and you see this little towns that don't have anything. super interesting. And then we came down all the way to Portugal, like at the end of our trip.
Emily: Oh, we did. Did you do this in the van was?
Daniela: Yeah.
Emily: I love that.
Daniela: Exactly. So yeah, we were so like, connected to nature. Like if this was the year where we really like beaches, lakes, mountains, anything, you know, caves. We weren't doing all the natural things everywhere. What year was this? By the way? 2016. Okay, yeah, yeah. Cool. So yeah, we were there doing all of these things super disconnected from from city life.
And then when we came back, life was indeed different. Because okay, we were more we were settled. In that was good. But also less less in nature. I mean, we could go out and go to the beach and stuff, but we were less. Because imagine like, in a van, you're like waking up and you're already having your breakfast in the, in the woods, or having your breakfast in front of the beach. So like, it's amazing how much you spend, like, in nature super nice. And I felt this difference somehow.
Emily: So I think a lot of like, What do you mean between van life and then coming back into the city? Yeah, like living more nature and be more in the city?
Daniela: Yeah. So yeah, exactly. So at this point, you know, with all of my inclinations that I already have, we said okay, like, let's put, you know, the project to into place, what are we gonna do, basically, and at this point, we were like, okay, like, I cannot work on something that doesn't bring any good to people or it's not, you know, driving value, or impactful.
And in and then I thought, I mean, I was missing nature from all of this. This time. It's like, what about if we help people like bring nature closer to their daily lives? So I started learning about biophilic design. And I was so surprised about all of this Studies and people like recovering a day faster from like being in turn in hospital and being able to go out one day faster or a few days faster, or requiring less medicine or feeling less pain, like impressive, actually results from, from this interventions that they did. So that was very, that was like a calling for me.
Like, we have to use this more we have to bring this morning to the world because there's solutions at that at that time. That was end of 2017 were a bit scars, they weren't really, you know, solutions for the actual end customer. So yeah, that's how everything kind of all the pieces of the puzzle came together to create the that idea.
Emily: Yeah. And did you did you and Alex created to create it together?
Daniela: Yeah, we created it together in the beginning. I don't know if it's, that's the nature of how we are, I am much more into the aesthetics of things and much more into like the pieces of in, in, in an interior or that reaction. I mean, I'm so curious about how things impact us. Yeah, more than him. Okay. So naturally, this was a job that I enjoyed more than him.
And we started and we kind of give the the initial structure, which was a bit different than what it is now. Now, it's much more focused on on on biophilic design and sustainability. And we, we kind of started working for a few months. And after some time he he was like, Dad, I'm not feeling this very much. We have to we have to see a way because I'm not, you know, the whole point of us creating a project and working on our own was to really enjoy what we were doing. So let's have that freedom.
So I said to him, like, let's, let's let you can, like, leave me to to, to continue, and you can take another path. So he will wait for a path. And at that moment, yeah, we we were working also for another digital agency digital. Yeah. And we we had two jobs like we I had first homes, and then I also had this job. So I was working both things.
Emily: So like one was the digital marketing. Was it? Okay, which was kind of like your steady source of income as you pouring love. And then yeah, back into this.
Daniela: Exactly. Yeah. Okay. So then at some point, it came that I couldn't take on both. And I got, like I asked for I asked my boss for a raise for a raise for a raise. He gave it to me like the first few times, but then there's like, it's like, well, I'm making more with my business. So I have to have to quit.
Emily: And how long was that period between like you starting it? And then finally being able to say, Hey, I'm making enough now. I can leave my other job. How long was that?
Daniela: It was like a year nine.
Emily: That's, that's impressive. Yeah. Good. Yeah. Good on you. And when you started it, like did you do everything yourself? The website and and all the things?
Daniela: Yeah. All of the things myself. Yeah, that's nice.
Emily: And then as you grew what at what point did you start maybe like hiring outsourcing and realising that it was more beneficial to you?
Daniela: You know, to have some stuff done by others than myself? Yeah. I think it was about like, in two and a half years or so. Because I think that's the hardest part. It has been for me to give up. Yeah, give up to manage to manage other people and to make sure that yeah, that you can still do your your tasks.
And because there comes a time when, for example, when you are hiring one person, that you have to leave what you are doing and as a business manager All you're doing is generating, generating sales generating movement, income to come to the to the project. And when you have another person, your attention goes into that person a lot.
So that's really tricky because it comes a time when you're a bit anxious, because of course, that has an impact on the business. And it has for a time, but then you have to kind of understand it. So I had some trial and errors at the beginning, like hiring and, and facing this anxiety of, it's not going to be enough, you know, I cannot pay this person. And I don't feel I didn't feel also like, what am I doing, like, this person is not helping me enough they are the heart and capable of, I mean, you're the one that knows the business the most. So you cannot expect people to come in and already know everything, like, everything has their curve, like the learning curve.
And it's an it's quite tricky process that and that also, that's why I feel that what you do is really important, because nobody really tells you things. Yeah, when you are starting a business, like, you're gonna get so much anxiety when you're hiring a person. Not for the fact of hiring them just for the fact of like being able to, to manage your budget and looking at how you're going to do to keep this person and also…
Emily: Yeah, and also onboarding them, because I've Yeah, like I've been through that recently, myself, like hiring somebody. And then maybe you don't have the processes yet to give that person the love the attention that they need, and the structure to just slide in there. And sometimes it's like, a bit of a trial and error to figure it out to create the process to create the structure. Yeah. And it takes a lot of time, from you so much time to, to, and then you're like, Oh, but I also have to do this and this and this. And sometimes it's like, oh, maybe I feel like, especially like founders, we're not always the best managers. You know, we have our zone of genius. Yeah. And sometimes it's like, maybe we should hire somebody else to come and like, yeah, help manage. Yeah, the whole.
Daniela: Yeah, I think. I think it's, that's, that will be the ideal to have, like, that person that manages but I think you as a founder, you have to learn to to be a good manager. Yeah. And that's a lot of what I want a focus on learning now. Like, I remember the beginning, like really focusing on learning more about innovation and creativity, which is also something that for me, it's it's quite, I'm quite passionate about innovation and creativity. But now into, like more into like working in the day to day thing, like, what I learned the most. And what I tried to teach myself the most is how to be a good manager.
Emily: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And how many people do you have on your team?
Daniela: At the moment? So we are three. Okay. Yeah. And we have outsource things like contractors. Yeah.
Emily: Nice. for that. Yeah. It's still a massive step to Loyce. Yeah, exactly. Their life is sort of yeah, they're they count on you.
Daniela: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It feels like you're a parent. Yeah. Somehow. Our responsibility of of? Yeah, yeah. Because a lot of yeah, when people take a job, they are taking it further instability, basically. Yeah. Yeah.
Emily: So I'm also curious, like, why did you because you were up in Norway, you are sort of Scandinavia, you're in France as well. So like, let's step back a little bit. And I'm curious, like, why you ended up then settling in Portugal and creating your business in Portugal? And not France? Not Scandinavia, not home in Venezuela, for example?
Daniela: Yeah. Well, I had left for years in France. And I love France really much because it's a very diverse country. It has so many different environments, like you have beautiful beaches, beautiful mountain, everything that you can imagine so, so beautiful, and where were you by the way? So we were in Bordeaux. Nice. We also lived in Granada, which is in the Alps. And then we lived in the south of Paris. Okay. Nice.
And I think what we really wanted was to have a balanced life like that was their main goal. to have a balanced life where we had a job that we liked, and where we could enjoy nature as much as possible. So, and also we are quite I mean, I mentioned I love innovation. So I really like cultural things and being able to be at like, yeah, innovation events, cultural events, and all of these things. So yeah, being in the middle of nature wasn't really an option. We also really enjoy surfing.
So we, we kind of saw Lisbon as a great place because it really has. Yeah, yeah. It's hard to test all of the all of the ticks of the boxes. I feel exactly the same. Yeah, yeah. They are filled and Yeah. In the people like also coming in and, and being super helpful. And, and there's a beautiful community.
Emily: Yes. Like the people that attracts, like, similar values of like, freedom.
Daniela: Balanced Life? Yeah. Because it's not really like you don't come here to to, for example, you could go, I mean, I really respected people that choose a place for their purpose. And, for example, people come here for that to have a balanced life people go to, for example, Barcelona, because they can have a nice, outgoing. A lot of you know, nightlife, for example, it's so good. Or they go to Dubai, Dubai has jobs be so well, so here, you don't really have so much of that. Do you have more of a balanced life? So it's not for everyone? It really like it's so that's what also what I really like, because what you say like attracts similar Yeah, similar align kind of people. Yeah, it's so beautiful. Yeah.
Emily: So that's why you ended up here. And how long have you been in Lisbon
Daniela: Now? Five years? Yes. Cool. Yeah.
Emily: So another question that I'm really curious about is, obviously, there are so many unexpected challenges when we start a business, any business. Aside from outsourcing and hiring people, you know, what were some of the other massive challenges that you had to deal with?
Daniela: Yeah, that definitely, like, biggest deal will be that like, having managing people finding the people, the right people, for you. And, and, and also like, not having or, like, it's so good when you work with a partner, also, like, partner of your business, like, if you were to at least Yeah, not just one, because sometimes the you can support each other balanced strengths and weakness Exactly. Or like, maybe one day you are feeling like you want to, you want to leave everything, and you want to drop everything, but the other person will be like, No, you know, like, remember why you place or are the other way around. So I think that is a great challenge that I didn't foresee.
And also, the part of, for example, like, the amount of competition, like no competition, but for example, when you want to grow your business, and you want to reach investors, or, for example, suppliers, because I work with a lot of good brands, and they don't want to work. I mean, it's hard for you as you're starting to be credible, and to be like, you know, like, I can do this. And at first people don't believe you or don't want to work with you, because who are you, you know, and you have to prove yourself, you have to prove yourself either by actions or by attitude.
But if you don't do it with the attitude, it's quite, you know, it's quite hard to go through the action. So you have to work a lot on your on your confidence, which I knew but it's always something that that you kind of struggle when you are facing like a new a new a new environment that's not yours that you'd never kind of, I didn't come from from a background where I knew how to sell products or….
Emily: And you've never really like done or you've never really liked been taught how to it's kind of like, oh, you're learning as you're going.
Daniela: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I think that's that's a very tough challenge of what I do. The part of the confidence, I think it has developed so much like, because it's, it's also you kind of you start and you think that you cannot do anything like this, you think, what am I doing? Like, I'm not going to be able to do this. And then you start to see that you can. And then you are you start growing that confidence within yourself and you look back and you say, okay, like, look at all that I've done like this, I did all by myself. And and it's a credit that you that you makes you feel proud because it wasn't somebody that put you there or your parents. I mean, it was all you so you are you feel proud. Yeah, so that kind of grows into you.
Emily: Did you also have like, Did you also, I don't know have like coaches or business coaches that kind of like helped you with this kind of dealing with impostor syndrome dealing with like, I don't know, pitching to investors? Or did you kind of how did you overcome that like confidence imposter syndrome just by doing?
Daniela: Yeah, I had some coaches, here and there. I think I highly recommend it to have like, budget for that. Find a good coach. I mean, I think everyone has different styles, and I tried different people. I don't know if you must have one all the time, but at least a few times. When you're when you feel that you need focus, for example, like when you feel that you also need this confidence. I think yeah, part of it was was coaches, for example, like I had a really nice coach at the very beginning of my journey where I was working in working part time on the digital marketing agency, and having my project on the side.
And I was feeling like, When am I going to quit, you know, when am I going to be able to finally do this. And also, like being swamped with work, like I had so much work, like, going to my job and working from home. Like, it was just so tiring. And she started. She started showing me like my value as a, as a as a team player, as somebody in any team like in whether my own my own team or with a team of the agency. She was like you have to you have to claim your value. And you have to. Yeah, so that small thing.
So I think everything is like, it's also I feel that sometimes we want to feel like oh, from the day to the other you are. You have grown like crazy. And you have done everything overnight. Everything grows like suppose yeah, it's gradual. It's progressive. And yeah, so beautiful.
Emily: Yeah, yeah, I think with coaches as well, sometimes it's like, would that your example of like, oh, when? When is enough? And then when can I leave my job? And sometimes it's like, I feel like they give you not that we need permission, but it's like, you can do it if you want to. And maybe you're like, ah, yeah, that's right. I can you know, we get caught up in this cycle of like, what if? And then fear and scarcity? Oh, what if it doesn't work out? What if we do this?
Daniela: Yeah, I think a lot of it is like, that self? like Tony Robbins. Got the strength in you that you can do this. And yeah, you have to. And then sometimes when you don't believe then you ask for help.
Emily: Absolutely. And so for people in their early 20s, or just for anybody who's thinking about starting their own business, or yeah, just living a life differently. What would your advice be to perhaps your younger self?
Daniela: Yeah, I always think about this question. And it's quite interesting. I think one of the things that I learned through this past years is that everything like we're differently for you. Like, there's not like, you can see someone really successful and say, oh, like, look how they did it, they did this thing and, and then they have to I have to follow the same path or I have to kind of do this kind of same thing.
And actually doesn't work. You can try it, you can get inspiration and see, you actually have to try it and see that it doesn't work to make like to understand that, that, that it's not over there that you have to go, you have to take a different path. But sometimes we feel like sometimes by trying, there are no I cannot I'm a failure, you know, like, this doesn't like this doesn't I cannot good enough for No, it's not that you're not capable. It's that that way, it's not the best for you.
So there's so many different ways that you can do your activities, anything, talking about business relationships, like physical activity, everything that it's so different for everyone. So like, it's so good to experiment and see what works. Like sometimes we want to stick to one thing, because we think it's the only way but we have to see and keep trying and finding that thing that works for you. That feels aligned and true. Yeah to you is like, Oh, I think this kind of this kind of work. And maybe you tried it and you left it and maybe you try something else, but then you come back to it.
Emily: I love that I it's something that's feeling very true for me right now. It's like a lesson that I'm currently learning because when you start off in any any venture, you're like, Oh, I'll take this recipe like she's done this she's done this or whoever and you try to copy it because you think that would bring you success but like you said, like does maybe. But it's not perhaps you can tweak it always have to be exactly copy. Yeah, exactly. Make it so that it fits you and not you fitting that model.
Daniela: Exactly.
Emily: I love and so for you, I feel like you already have a very balanced life. But what does like a free wild and soulful life look like and feel like for you? Are you living it already?
Daniela: Yeah, I think we can always be be Wilder. Yeah, I think the world needs more like freedom. And, and yeah, I feel everyone to feel free to to do what they what they really want to do, and how they really want to do it. So I think free wild, soulful life for me. Looks like perhaps not not caring. Basically, I mean, being very proud, or not proud, but just very owning your your, your life as it is and not fitting into a specific concept of of a life that you imagine.
Emily: So having the courage to live the way you kind of the way you feel
Daniela: Yeah, yeah, whatever that is, yeah, whatever that is, because it's so different for everyone and pretend to think Oh, because I like this. Everyone must like it. But it's so different. We all have so many different perspectives. So I can only hope that's the life I'm trying to build for myself. Life where I really enjoy all the things that I do, where I wear the parts, I mean, there's always going to be a part of the job that you don't enjoy as much as the others. But that's everything. You know, when you do everything you have, there's always a thing that is more challenging than you did. But making it so the most part is something that it feels that it feels like it's not a job. Yeah, yeah. I love that.
Emily: Yeah, no, absolutely beautiful. And so to kind of round off, like where where can people find you and your website and what are some exciting things happening this year for you?
Daniela: Okay, so I'm starting. Maybe not yet. I don't have a date for it. But I'm starting a new experience in Nature different like now it's like a, like a service, basically, for people where they can go in nature. And actually there is something very known already that's gone sharing Yoku as far as bathing in Japanese.
Emily: Forest bathing. Yeah. Beautiful.
Daniela: And, and people already go and do this and they enjoy the experience. But what we want to do is actually record it, and have it have the reports of how these people felt and like have it say to other people, so they can understand the benefits of it. So that's part of the project that I have now. That it's very related to forest homes. And, and yeah, you can find me in Portugal. Yeah, I came here surfing. Yeah. Yeah. And as far as homes for sure.
Emily: Beautiful. I'll link I'll link that down below. Yeah, sure. I know, I love this idea of a forest bar. That's beautiful. Let me know when is when you've got that all figured out. And if you need participants…
Daniela: I've been doing it for a while now. Taking people to the forest. Yeah, so we do like a series of stops in the forest. And we engage our senses in different ways. And the interesting part, which, like among I'm so moved, it's a feeling that you feel so so moved, that it lasts all day, which is what I feel we should feel like with our work, like you should feel like the most the work that I really enjoy it when I when people feel so grateful about having experience or live or or been through something, you know, and that's what I want to bring to people like they feel like grateful for that moment.
And that really feels like this like when you take people to the forest and you do an assessment of their mood and it's like a simple 20 questions where people assess like in different scale how they feel in different ways. And every single time when you go in and when like when you go in the forest and when you go out it's like 180 shift like completely total change amazed are completely transformed for the best and and that's why that's how you you say I mean nature it's that's so good for us life giving.
Emily: Yeah, so we see you do these like tours just privately at them. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, cool. Oh my God, have a discussion. That's such a beautiful idea. I we need more of this in the world. I love the passion and the love with which you just infuse into your work. I love it. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing your story.
