#33: Why I Came Back To Freelancing And Left Employment (With Sivan Weitz)
Episode Shownotes
In this episode I sat down with seasoned freelancer, Sivan Weitz, who was also my first ever freelance hire!
Since we’ve worked together she’s had a full-time employed role, and is now transitioning back into freelancing—which I’m so excited for. She is such a contributor on so many levels and I am so grateful to get to share her story and what she’s doing differently this time around.
We discuss common freelance fears and how she overcomes these. One of the challenges of being a freelancer is pricing your services. Sivan shares some insights on how to approach this and emphasizes the importance of understanding the value you bring to the table and not underselling yourself.
She also highlights the importance of being a self-sufficient and self-motivated person in order to succeed as a freelancer. She shares her best tips on how to stay organized and productive, such as setting goals, establishing a routine, and using productivity tools.
Overall, this episode is a great resource for anyone considering leaving their full-time job to pursue freelancing or looking to navigate the ups and downs of freelance life. Sivan's journey and insights offer valuable lessons for anyone looking to find success working for themselves.
Sivan Weitz
✨ Follow Sivan on social media at https://www.instagram.com/sivanweitz
💜 Learn more about her at https://www.sivanweitz.com/
🌞 Let’s continue the conversation https://www.instagram.com/emilypeilan/
✨ If your business needs more website traffic and dream clients to create the freedom you want - download our free Website & SEO checklists here: https://www.arohavisuals.com/resources
Episode Transcript
Emily Peilan: Hello, hello from Chicago. Today's guest is a super special one to me. Her name is Sivan Weitz, and we have, or I've had the pleasure of working with her. For a couple of years now, actually, she was my first hire first person I worked with, and she was my social media manager. And at the start, I just, my, honestly, I have to say my business wouldn't be here.
It wouldn't have gotten started had it not been for Sivan. And so I really am so grateful for her. And I love that even though we stopped working together because. And had and found a full-time job, which I was so happy for her when she told me. So we, we took a break working together. I took a break in general from social media and recently came back into my life and by, by coincidence, I happen to be in Chicago and she lives in Chicago.
So we met up and spontaneously decided to do this podcast episode together. So fun. And so we dive into her story as to, why she went back to employment. Well, she never had an employment job anyway, so why she decided to go into a full-time job. What were the things that she learned from it and what were the things that she learned from freelancing?
And she's, considering coming back into freelancing full. And might be interesting for some of you to hear what are some of the things she would do differently this time around? I hope you find this conversation thought provoking and insightful. And I will see you on the other side.
Okay. Welcome to the free wild old podcast of one. Super excited. You here. Thank you. Great. So today we're gonna be talking about your journey as like a freelancer and social media management, and just the lessons that you learned from freelancing. Sounds good. Yeah. Cool. So recently I was super excited.
So Sivan and i, we worked together for maybe a year and a bit, right? Yeah. And then you stopped freelancing, found. And recently was super excited to hear you say that you're coming back into freelancing. Yes. And I was surprised. And I think I wanted to just explore that, like why did you decide to come back into freelancing?
Sivan Weitz: Yeah, so for context, I was a full-time freelancer for three years. That was my full-time career from graduating university. And then I found a full-time job for one company and I've now been at that company coming up on a year. Then now I'm transitioning back into being freelance. So kind of going backwards, but I guess starting with why I was looking for a full-time job to begin with is actually I wasn't ever really looking.
I thought freelance was the best thing ever and I always said I would never leave freelance unless I found my dream job. At the time I do think I was craving something. Study and a bit more of a team aspect and the collaborative aspect. And an opportunity came about that did feel like a dream job, and it hit ticked all my boxes in that it was still remote.
I still had a lot of freedom and it was in a industry that I'm really passionate about. So it ticked all those boxes and I felt like it was the right time. I did keep some freelance clients while I was being full-time as well, and then that kind of just became too difficult to keep up with. And then, Straight into the full-time job and then now a year later, I feel like I'm back in a space where I think I want a bit more autonomy on my career.
Not just cuz they have a lot of independence in this role, but actually have more of a hold on my career itself. When you're freelancing, it's so special because at any given time you can pivot, you can get more, you can have less, you basically. Have the chance to decide how much you make, how much you work, and what you work on.
And I just feel really motivated this year to get back to that and have more of a hands-on approach to the growth of my career than in a role where you're a bit stunted by what they have available to
Emily Peilan: you. Yeah. Yeah. I feel that, and like I think it comes with pros and cons, like the, when you are employed, you have the stability of knowing you'll get.
Right. And there's like this Yeah. Security to it. . Whereas with freelancing, like it's so volatile. And like you said, you can make as much as you want, but also if you were to, I don't know, burn out or have a bad month, then it's all on you and you have to make sure you're setting aside, extra funds, buffers and whatnot.
Right.
Sivan Weitz: Totally. And it's funny going back because my parents are reminding me of the cons, and I'm trying to be very clear. I'm not going back thinking it's all just gonna. Flowers and roses. I was there for three years. I remember the cons to it and yeah, it's important and, but I keep saying too, with any job that you have, literally any job, there's gonna be pros and cons definitely.
But for right now, freelance, the pros outweigh the cons for me. And before they weren't. And in my job it was for a little bit, and now they're not anymore. So I feel like you have to understand there's gonna be pros and cons for all of them, but also understanding that you pick the one that has. Yes, definitely.
Or that you're more willing to deal with the cons.
Emily Peilan: Yeah. Yeah. And so you were freelancing cuz you, did you study, like how did you get into freelancing in the first place? Were you in college and you were like, okay, definitely I'm gonna go freelancing. Like who or what inspired you to start that
Sivan Weitz: journey?
Yeah. Well it's definitely not something that they advertise in school or teach you that as something you can even do. When I studied public relations and advertising, so in the marketing sphere, and I had a lot of internships. Very much a person that I wanted to cross off what I didn't wanna do in order to find what I did wanna do.
So I had a lot of internships, trying to figure that out and. When I was a junior in college, so my third year in school I found a travel blogger. The story is funny because I had never followed anybody on Instagram that wasn't a friend or family member. I thought, why would you ever follow anybody that's not somebody, you know?
Like the Instagram wasn't quite there yet. . But I found this blogger on Pinterest and I thought, I want her life. And at the time, I didn't realize what influencers really were and they, I was so bold, so I thought, I want this girl's life. I'm gonna DM her and ask her how she did it. Like she has the time with 500,000 followers at the time to just tell me, but I present.
So I DMed her and she was the first person I'd ever. Not that I know in on Instagram, like reach out to, but I guess the boldness helped me in the moment. It kind of the ignorance of it, because I DMed and I was giving value. When I DMed her, I said, Hey, I love what you're doing. I love your life. I would love to learn from you and I could offer my services I'm in.
School learning X, Y, Z and I would love to help you with your social media. Are you looking for an intern? And so that was the message that I sent. So it was like, I wanna learn from you, I respect what you're doing, but also I can give you value for free at the time, cuz internship. I think my timing was just really good too.
They responded and said, you know, we're actually looking for an intern. Our last one just left so perfect. I ended up interning for her for three year or for three months. And then that turned into a part-time role. And then for the, my last year and a half of college, I basically worked part-time remotely.
And this. Pre covid before remote work was really a thing, but you know, she's traveling the world so everything was remote. Yeah. And so I got the feel of what is it like to work remotely, what it, and I saw wow, this can actually be a full-time job. And as I neared the end of college, I had realized that was my favorite thing I had done.
Out of all the in. Cause I did some internships in office and, kind of explored different things. But that job was my favorite and unfortunately she didn't have space for me to grow into a full-time position. And so I was like, what am I gonna do? And I had done some travel retreats with her where I met other women that were looking to be bloggers or in their own spheres.
And they all met me and thought, I need someone like you. I really wish I had someone like you. And so I thought to myself at the end of college, I thought, I already have a few people that have reached out to me to do the same type of work for them. I might as well just try it. And I think with my parents' influence as well, they're like, you're still on our insurance in the us we're on our parents' insurance until 26.
Yeah. You know, while you're on our insurance and you might as well try it. And I think we always had the mindset too of I can always get a corporate job. I can always get a full-time job. The typical trajectory for someone with my major is to go into an agency role. . Be in an agency for a couple years and then maybe go in-house.
Okay. And then maybe freelance even at the end of that. My first roommate went that route, which is funny cuz now we can compare our journeys. But I thought, you know what, I have these people already, why not? Why not just try it? Yeah. And yeah, there was not something that was presented or nobody really tells you can freelance.
. Or that's really even an option. . And none of my friends did it. All of my friends got corporate jobs straight outta college and I don't know.
Emily Peilan: Did that feel lonely for you to be the only one?
Sivan Weitz: That group? I don't think so, cuz I've just always been confident in myself and I thought it was cool and they all thought it was cool too.
And I also graduated college a semester early. . Which didn't matter, but it just means I was a bit ahead of my peers who were, looking for jobs all at the same time. And I just started my life and I moved to a new city and I just was like, I'm gonna do this. Yeah. And I don't care. I think I always just had the faith that I think always knowing that you can go back.
Yeah. Gives you a confidence to try it.
Emily Peilan: It's like having that safety net allows you to take.
Sivan Weitz: As well. Whereas if you start corporate, I think it's harder to leave because it's comfy. Yeah. Isn't it you've, yeah. I will say my one, like jealousy I guess, or I was not sure if I was having like FOMO of. Am I missing this?
Like what you see on tv, like this office culture, like getting coffee and having breaks and chats and going up the community. Yeah. I was like, am I missing this like young person, happy hours after work, kind of office culture. Yeah. But what I got in return, like instead, or in exchange I guess, is traveling the world, owning my own business, working with tons of different types of clients.
like we said, pros and cons. Pros ands, it's a trade off
Emily Peilan: and the intangibles. Just learning so much about yourself. . About business. . About the le like contracts and pricing and Oh yeah. Mindset. All those things that you don't actually learn when you're in a corporate job because things just get handed to you, right?
You get your role handed to you and you just do in a way, as you're told, and when you're freelancer, like no one tells you what to do. Like you can sleep all day, you can work all day, right? You know yourself better than anyone else and just like their self-growth. Priceless. I think going into your twenties, late twenties, like
Sivan Weitz: that's like priceless.
I agree. Yeah. I think looking back to, it takes a very specific type of person to be a freelancer, you have to be self-sufficient. You have to be motivate, self-motivated, and not be someone that needs to be told what to do because you're not gonna be like you said. Yeah. Yeah. And
Emily Peilan: I think there are lots of, as much as I would love to tell everyone, like you should freelance, like freelancing is the best.
I think I've come to realize that not everybody is made for freelancing because the amount of stress it comes with is like ridiculous. And if you're not someone who can handle that stress, or if you are like way too hard on yourself or something, Or way too chill. Yeah. Then you can't like make it work.
Right. And I do think it takes a specific type of person to make it. And something I admire so much about you is like your self certainty, like your self assertiveness. Yeah. It's so inspiring. . You just like back yourself. Yeah. And I think,
Sivan Weitz: I never didn't think it was gonna happen. No. I think it's the same with money and in the beginning of freelancing, that's probably the biggest fear.
. Because you don't have a consistent income, you just don't. Yeah. But I just. Never had that fear. I always thought I can just figure it out and if I need to, which I did in the time I lance, get a job at a restaurant, work at a different place. Make it work. Just make it work. I think that is the mindset you have to go in.
Yeah. In with other, you can't just expect it's gonna come, but expect that you're always gonna
Emily Peilan: make it work. Yeah, yeah. And also not looking externally. I think a lot of people sometimes are like, oh asking other people, like outsourcing their questions or their problems, oh, what do you think I should do?
. I'm having this problem. What do you think? And I think for freelancing or having your own business, you have to rely on yourself. . Like, how am I gonna make this work? And troubleshooting that. Yeah, totally. Let's touch on, so what did you actually do for. This travel blogger. . And then was it like social media, content creation?
Were there a few other things as well?
Sivan Weitz: Yeah. Yeah, so she really owned her own Instagram. I think that was her baby. . And it's her face, her name. So she really owned her Instagram at the time and I was helping a lot with the blog side of things. So uploading blogs into the backend.
Formatting her photos, going through an album of photos from her trips, picking the best ones and formatting them, uploading to the blog, all that kind of stuff. And then I did a lot with her, Pinterest, which was interestingly, her highest traffic source was from Pinterest consistently year after year, not Instagram.
So it worked a lot with her, Pinterest, which was awesome. And then just any little tasks here and there. She had a full-time employee at the time who still works with her now. She worked more on the strategy and influencer relations side. . So she was doing a lot of emailing brands and helping pitches and the campaign side of things.
So I, any kind of anything else would tri trickle down to me. Yeah. When it came to blogging Facebook, I ran her Facebook group, which was pretty big and still is. And then she also started, created other small businesses from hers, like the retreats she branded and became, New company underneath the umbrella of her company of retreats.
And then I started and ran the Instagram account for her retreats. Nice. And she also did Lightroom preset. So I started and ran the Instagram account for her Lightroom preset. So kind of anything on the outskirts . Was fell to me her like main Instagram and then, campaign stuff was the others.
Yeah. So
Emily Peilan: something that like jumps out at me is you are such a yes person as well, so it's not like, Do you wanna do this? And you're kind of like, oh no, it doesn't really fit in my role description. You are so like open to trying things and then if it doesn't work out, then you'll let it go.
But you're such a yes person. Yeah. And I think that's an attitude that is like really important to have in freelancing as well. And like unlike a traditional job, it's not a job description. You can really make it whatever you want to make it. Like if you don't like to. Pinterest and don't do Pinterest.
You don't have to, even if you're a social media manager Right. You get to specialize. So, so yeah, that's something that's really cool. Going back to like your start point as you went off on your own. . One of the things that I really struggled with is, Talking about like pricing, like how to price yourself, and I think this is the probably the biggest thing that stops most people from going out into freelancing is that they don't know how to price themselves.
Yeah. They don't know how to create a package. They don't know what their time is worth and how much their work is worth and who to reach out to. . So how did you go about finding your confidence in that and then.
Sivan Weitz: I think that goes back to what you're saying as yes, I'm a yes person, and I would always say yes to anything.
And it's that, fake it till you make it, Google it if you don't know the answer. Anytime I got, especially in the beginning when I was trying to figure out what are my services, I knew I was like social media management, but that can cover so many things. And then anytime people would ask me to do something more, I would just say yes and figure it out.
And then with pricing, That just shifts. It evolves so much over time. It is for sure. The hardest thing to do is put money on your value and I think. That's probably the number one question I get from people who want to jump into freelance. How did you price your services? It's what I see most talked about on Facebook groups and this and that.
And the range is insane. If you look up what the range for pricing is, it can be from $10 an hour to $500 an hour to $5,000 monthly, whatever. So there's no help online. And when you're starting out, that's where you're gonna go first. And you can do kind of like, you can look for industry trends like what.
What would you be making if you had this role in a company? And have that as a starting off point. But at some point you actually just have to put a number and start there. And the good thing about freelance too, is you can literally change it for every client that you get, because, You're not putting your prices out there.
I would never put my prices on my website or put them out there. . You do it after you've had the intro, Paul, with a potential client. Yeah. And then you can change it for every person. . So you, let's say you start at 15 an hour and you're like, that feels comfortable to me. That feels fair.
And then you realize, wait, that's so low. Then the next person you can charge 20 and the next person 25 or in three months you can up it. Or in a year you can up it. You're not stuck. And I think that was
Emily Peilan: important. And no one's telling you're not allowed to No as well. And they don't,
Sivan Weitz: your last client doesn't know what you're gonna charge next client versa.
So it is genuinely the hardest thing. But I think we overthink it. You overthink it for sure. And I started hourly cuz that just, it felt like the most fair to me when I didn't really know how valuable my services were to be like, I can track my hours and then price charge it by hour. That just felt fair to be like, this is exactly what my hourly is.
And then, What it is, how many hours I worked for this thing as you. And I think that's a comfortable place to start as a freelancer. It makes me think of babysitting when we used to babysit. Yeah. And trying to put a price on that too was always awkward. Yeah. But I think one thing is having your price in mind and knowing it, because we were talking about this earlier.
Yeah. When you have that conversation with a potential client and say, what's your budget? They're gonna just turn it around on you and say, what do you charge? Yeah. And so I think just. Some number in mind base price. Yeah. Or something. Maybe figure out where you don't wanna go under X amount. .
And it's also something you figure out with your lifestyle. How much do I need to make a month? Yeah. And all that, what goes into it? And you know, cost of living and all that kind of stuff. And yeah, having some kind of base price and if hourly is the most comfortable to start, that's great. But I think eventually transitioning into packages is where I found the most.
Success.
Emily Peilan: Yes. And not having, so two things, like not having like your value, not valuing your time per se, but valuing what it is you're actually creating for them. Because it's like if you can create something of value and half the time you shouldn't be paying being paid half exactly of that because you're actually doing it faster.
They get it faster. Yeah. And it's the same quality. Right? And so I think that's when at some. Hourly rate actually hinders you from growing a hundred percent. And also now with ai, it's like, whoa. Right. If I can do it in 30 minutes. Right.
Sivan Weitz: No, I learned that lesson hard and there was two things I saw that I remember really impacted my shift from hourly to.
Packages. One was, I think it was an Instagram post from somebody who does something similar to me and she said, if you are really good at something, naturally you are gonna do it faster than somebody that's not good at it. So, yeah.
Emily Peilan: And also you are like, shit, you work so fast, so efficient, and you do what in half the time other people would take but something
Sivan Weitz: like math that I'm terrible at is gonna take me a lot longer than somebody who's great at math.
So naturally your ability. Do something you're good at, you're gonna do it fastest. That was one thing. . And then I thought, why? Giving it by based on time when I just do things naturally quickly. Yeah. And the other thing was something my dad told me, and I always think about this and I, I've told so many people, he said, if you hire a plumber to fix your sink for $500 and it takes them five minutes, it costs $500.
And if it takes them five hours, it costs $500. Yeah. That blew my mind. Yeah. And just changed my perspective entirely. And I thought Exactly. It's the value of fixing your sink. Exactly. It's not the time it takes to do it. A hundred
Emily Peilan: percent. So, so leading on from. It's like a good question you could ask your clients if they're flipping the pricing question back to you.
You're like, how much would you like to make? Or How much more would you like to make per month or per year? . And then gauging how much of that you can actually help with. . And then working backwards from there. . Based on how much they're currently making. So you have a sort of, Price point to work with.
Yeah. And then something that I've been doing more of in the last couple years is like value-based pricing. So instead of just having a package, which I do as well . Oftentimes with more premium clients, it's like seeing how much of a value is it going to be for them, rather than how much is your work worth?
. Right. It's like, how much is this gonna change or make for.
Sivan Weitz: That's such a good way to look at it cuz it is really hard to put a price on yourself. . . And value your own work. But to put it in terms of what you're saying, like how much money is this gonna make you more? Exactly. And stuff like that.
It's a good way to look
Emily Peilan: at it. Yeah. It's like crazy. Mind-blown quote I heard from someone the other day, it was like, your services is only as valuable as it is to your client or something like that. Right. Like their outcome. Exactly. . So if you're selling. A brand photo shoot for 10 K, but your clients are like typical like solopreneurs.
It's not worth 10 K to them. . But if you sell that package brand photo shoot to someone who has, I don't know, making a hundred K a month . That's nothing for them, right? . And so it's the same thing. You're doing the same amount of work, perhaps even less depending on the person that you're actually speaking to.
It's all relative, right? . So pricing, if you think you're expense. Or cheap like you are both. . At all times to different people. . Right. So I think it's to like, not overthink how much you charge, but perhaps overthink who you are actually targeting. . And who you want as an ideal client.
And are you finding those right people? Are you
Sivan Weitz: trapping them? Right? Yeah. Going off of that thought, when I was starting out, I would take anybody as a client, and when you start as a freelancer, you're so desperate for money and anything, you'll just take anybody as a client and it doesn't really matter what industry they're in or what you like or what you don't like, but it's also a lesson to learn, oh, what kind of industries do I wanna work with?
I do wish I took the time in the beginning to list out like, what are my dream clients? One of my industries I'd love to go for, I don't know if that would've affected who I would and wouldn't take. I swear I had this like spark in my head. Anytime I saw the word hiring or opportunity, I just had to answer the Facebook post and it, now I still have it.
I think about it too, cuz I still have it. If it says hiring, I immediately look at it like something lights up in my brain. So, but that is a very beginner thing and that's okay. And I did that for the first year and I ended up working with. 20 different small clients that were in all different industries and all different niches.
And some of them were great and some of them were not great. And it's just, it was such like a lesson learned. . But I think also remembering that in the beginning, you're also a beginner, so you're probably gonna end up working with small businesses who don't have a lot of budget. You're not, you haven't proven yourself yet.
You don't, you're not an agency. Yeah. You're not gonna hit these big businesses Yeah. That have the budget to pay you more. Right. So kind of being okay with that and knowing in the. Maybe it's small businesses with smaller budget and then as you grow Yeah, just like bus, other businesses are growing, you can start targeting medium sized businesses that maybe have a bit of more of a budget.
Yeah. But
Emily Peilan: it's in correlation with your experience, right? Yeah. And I think a lot of people who start out, I'm one of them cuz I'm quite like impatient, but it's like a lot of us want to get there and charge premium prices to premium clients before we actually. The proof behind us and the evidence that we can help them get to where they want to be.
Right, right. You have to, that's something that comes with time and experience and you have to start from Well,
Sivan Weitz: yeah. Hospital. Well, I was speaking with my dad about, as I came back to freelance this time, and I guess I never really answered why I came back, but I was reworking my pricing and he was looking at what other companies charge and he.
General, like when you Google marketing agency, probably the first one that comes up and he was looking at their packages and they start at three grand a month, go up to five grand, 10 grand. And he was like, so just copy that. And I go, that is a full scale agency. Yeah, they can pay that cuz they're gonna get clients like Coca-Cola and Netflix.
I'm one person offering like just me. Yeah. So you have to understand where you are in the market too and who you can actually target. But there is like a nice middle ground of these medium sized businesses, I guess I would say, who a have the budget to start out with. But also you can start, this is something I always say with clients.
There's no long-term commitment with me. I know some people do it differently where you have to sign a 90 day contract or whatever, but for myself, I feel, give me a month. Let me prove myself. See how much value it brings you, and then 10 outta 10 times. Honestly, with my experience, they're gonna continue after that.
But I think even just giving them the disclaimer that this is not a long-term commitment yet allows them to feel more okay with the price, if that makes sense. Yeah.
Emily Peilan: Definit. So coming back to the original question so what triggered you or what made you decide to come back this time?
Sivan Weitz: I think, like I said before, that feeling of wanting to have more.
Control over the growth of my career. I think it was so valuable to be in this team setting and learn just what it was like to actually work for a bigger company. And the company I worked for is small, so it really wasn't even a massive corporate experience, but I just feel really motivated this year to grow and.
Control over my own success. And so that's why I'm back.
Emily Peilan: And would you be doing like social media marketing again or do you see yourself branching into a different role?
Sivan Weitz: Yeah, so I think social media marketing is. Is my expertise, right? So when I think about what I can offer and what I'm best at, what I feel most confident offering to people is that.
And so it's nice to have that kind of base, but it's also been a year since I've been doing this and there's all these new things that have popped up. So there's other things I wanna explore, for sure. Other offerings. I've also found how much I love content creating versus some more of the plug and play things.
So I would love to explore some other options that involve more hands-on content creating and that stuff. And three, four years down the line, now I'm still a yes girl. So Emily came back to me and wants me to work in project management and I'm down. I've never done it before, but I'm, I think I have always managed my own project.
So I'm like, yeah, I can do that. Yeah. And we'll see. I think I. There's a lot of services that can be offered and they just continue to evolve. So I'm very open to shifting.
Emily Peilan: Yeah. She like is the most organized person that everybody needs someone in their life. Especially if you're like Yeah. A visionary.
It's just amazing. So good. So coming back this time round, like I feel like if I was to go back and start my freelancing, I would do it very differently as well. What are like, can you. A couple other things that you would do differently?
Sivan Weitz: Yeah, so what I'm doing differently this time, so I revisited my pricing.
I think that was the first thing to look back at, especially after a year of getting really valuable experience and working for a company. You know, I had more value to give and I wanted to rework. The way my packages looked and actually really think about what do I wanna give people? What can I offer that is maybe a little bit different, and how can I position myself in the market that feels a little bit different?
So reworking my packages was one, as I come back, two is being a lot more picky with who I work with doing that exercise. Like I said, I wish I did in the beginning of writing down all of my dream. And if we've learned anything from my story with the blogger, just DMing them, you never know. Just reaching out.
But and figuring out what kind of industries I want to be in and putting, I think being a little bit more active in searching for clients and sending out proposals versus passive as I was before, kind of searching Facebook groups and looking for people who are posting about it. . So of going after people a little bit more.
Answering prompts. Yeah. If that makes sense. Yeah. I have the luxury right now because I'm keeping my full-time job until I feel like I'm full-time freelance again. So I have the luxury of going slow. Yeah. But just in general, I want to move a bit slower and. Not have that mindset of I just need to take on anybody.
Yeah. And I think I have a way better grasp of vetting people. . When in the first call with them. Red flags. Yeah. Red flags for sure. And I just had a really hard time before and I still, my tendency now is still to say yes to everything, like I said, but. Something that my dad and my boyfriend are reminding me is it's okay to say no, and if somebody doesn't have the money you're asking for, it's okay to tell, to say, please call me when you do, or, you know, I'd love to work with you in the future.
And I didn't really have the capacity to say that before. And again, I have, I'm in a good situation right now where I'm, I don't need it, but I think that's a good lesson for anybody. . Once you decide on your prices, cuz I would always say, well, let, I'll, I like you as a person, or I love your brand, so let me just figure out something.
Yeah. So I can help you because I want to work with you. But at some point you have to stop doing that and you have to get paid for what you're worth. Yeah. And I also don't want to, not devalue myself, but just offer less because they can't pay the amount. Because at the end of the day, especially in my industry of social media marketing, it's such a hands-on.
Game and you have to be consistent. And so if I say you can pay me less and I'll just do less. Well, that's just me then working and nothing really happening for them. So it's kind of a lose losee.
Emily Peilan: It is. So yeah, we had this conversation, we're like, if we're only doing two posts a week or one post a week or something and it's not actually moving you forward, you're not actually growing and you're paying me this money, you may as well actually wait until you can pay me the full amount and we can actually move the needle
Sivan Weitz: forward.
Forward. Exactly. Exactly. But I think now having the words to explain that, yeah, I am able. Tell people no. Yeah. And yeah, not make those exceptions. . Which is really hard cause I love people and I love small businesses and I wanna help everybody, but Totally. So I think just this time around I have this kind of new confidence and new understanding of my own value.
Yeah. So yeah, those are the things I feel like I'll do differently this time.
Emily Peilan: Something I learned as well, just in the last year. Because as, as maybe as a female, I'm just like more emotional about business in gen. Just more emotional in general. Yeah. And I'm the same. Sometimes I just really wanna work with a client and I'll lower my, like rates or something to like work with them and yeah, because I like them or I think they're really impactful and all the things.
But one thing I'm learning as well, like you, is to detach myself emotionally, like businesses, business Don't work with you. It's not personal you know, and that has actually freed up my mind so much more to actually focus on the things that actually matter. And I think with a lot of freelancers, especially females, we're so caught up in like being aliked and saying yes and being supportive and helpful.
. We don't want any bad blood, we don't want any conflicts. We want everybody to be happy. And often that just involves. Emotional energy that takes away from everything else. That's actually really important. Absolutely. Yeah. And
Sivan Weitz: there's a respect there too, when you say, this is my price and I'm so sorry I can't go lower.
I really hope you find somebody that you know works well. If not, I would love to chat in the future. Yeah. When you say that there's this automatic respect of, okay, that person values themself and. More than likely they're gonna come back to you. Yeah. When they do have the money, cuz they're like, well I, what am I missing?
This person seems really great, confident and we've talked about too, you can always find something, somebody that's gonna do it for less. There are so many people starting out just like I was and I would've done it for less. And you can find that and that's great. And maybe a diamond in the ruff will be great.
But most often it's probably not gonna be the val, the quality of work you would've gotten if you just paid and you're just wasting money and then you should have just paid from the beginning. Yeah. So, totally. Yeah. I think it feels really good going back into it now with this kind of confidence and new mindset.
I don't know that there's even a way to have this when you're starting out. I think you have to go through Yeah. The beginning, but you can quickly get to this place. .
Emily Peilan: For anyone who's like thinking about freelancing Do you think everybody has to go through this period of like internship first?
. Or do you think, yeah, what would you, what would your advice be for somebody who's I've got this skillset. I know I can make something of it and freelance, but they're just not quite sure where to start or what the first like three
Sivan Weitz: steps are. Yeah, for sure. What would you say? I think it's a really good idea to, like we talked about, have.
And if you, there's this catch 22, I feel like with a lot of jobs when they say you need X amount of experience, but you can't get the experience till you get the job. And I think freelancers have their own version of that too. I can't get a client cause I don't have a portfolio. I don't have anything to show for it.
Exactly. And what I see, the answer to this a lot is people say, Make something for your local bakery. They're not gonna pay you. Just make it and put it on your portfolio or your favorite product, or you can mock up things or offer a nonprofit. Nonprofits love this help. That is such a good avenue to just do it.
And like anybody starting out, you might just have to do it for free or for. Trade. Maybe you just work with a restaurant and you get a free meal every time you go in, whatever it is. But you build up a portfolio in that case that you can then use for future clients. And it doesn't have to be that long.
You don't have to do that for that long. It's one or two, three. Yeah.
Emily Peilan: Three. And then you can get going or you can even create a passion project. Like you can create, I know a lot of designers do this when they're like downtime, slow season, they'll just be like, Ooh, this is a cool concept. I wanna just create a logo for this.
. And then they put it as a mockup. Showcase and people don't know if it's a real brand or not, they don't really care. Your work is your work.
Sivan Weitz: . The other thing I would say, starting out that I got comments on that made me stand out for people, which also you can speak to because I did comment on your post.
Yeah. We just, we were not connected with anything. Like you picked me out of a crowd. Yeah. But what I got feedback on was my website. And prior to you, did I have a website prior to you? I think I did, but it was really Yes, you did Basic. Basic, yeah. But even just having a website was one step more than other people had.
Having a nice PDF of your services. Pricing or whatever. . And you don't have to fully have a brand and brand yourself and have an Instagram for your company or whatever. Yeah. But just having consistent, cohesive pieces that people can look at and say, and even that proves you're gonna do a good job because you're put together and you're presenting yourself in this cohesive way and it just makes you uplevel you a bit more than the person that's just sending a Word doc or Definitely.
Or sending whatever. I had people send
Emily Peilan: me series and I was like, Don't even look at CVS anymore. Right? Who does that? Right. It's like your portfolio that I really care about actually. Yeah. Actually going back to that memory, I was like, yeah, I had 40 people something apply. It was so many.
And I whittled it down to 10 people and then less maybe who I actually ended up having an interview with. Yeah. And I'll tell you what really stood out to, you know, to me about you was like one your experience with the travel blogger, which. Like in a very similar niche to me. . So you understood it.
. And we had like similar values too. You love traveling. . So like values that, that was really important for me and I felt like we connected on that. That was important. Third thing, just like out of everybody who I interviewed, you were like, that person who just had a structure went into it.
. Confident, self-assertive, not arrogant at all. . But you're, You've just got your shit sorted. . And everybody else felt like really fluffy and didn't want to talk about things and didn't really have a system or a process. And I felt like it was just not going anywhere. And the conversation was like dead.
Yeah. Right. Yeah. And for you, you're like, bam, bam, ba like, and it still is like this guys going into a conversation. It's like bam, bam, bam. All done. Super efficient. . And that's kind. The kind of people that you
Sivan Weitz: wanna hire. Right? Yeah. It's funny cuz I helped my dad find some freelancers to work for him and I was on the other side of the interview, which for the first time and I was like, oh, it's so clear.
It is so clear when you talk to somebody who you wanna work with and who you don't. And just the tone and like you said, how they show up. And my philosophy for always, I think I. A weird natural confidence that I can't explain, but I also would always just go into interviews thinking this is just a chat.
Like you literally just go into the interview thinking, I'm just chatting with this other person. I know everybody says like you're interviewing them as much as they're interviewing you, but it's true. And just go have a conversation. I think when people tell me that they're nervous for interviews, I don't get it.
Like I get it, but I don't get it. Just go have a conversation. Yeah, you don't, it doesn't have to be that deep. If they don't wanna work with you, it's not meant to be in you, whatever, and it's not personal and they're not the last person that you're gonna work with. I think that it's a scarcity mindset when you have that and you get, you get so worked up about it and that's what's gonna ruin.
You're gonna come across nervous and all that, so literally just go in thinking. I could work with them or I could not. Either way. I'm good. Let's have a chat. Yeah. Find out who they are. Small talk. That's how we connected on traveling. Yeah. Another thing my dad's always said is find that thing you can connect on.
. Let the other person talk too. Like people love to get this sound of their own voice. Yeah. You know, ask them a question, let them talk and just have a conversation. Yeah. Sometimes e yeah. Actually that's a really
Emily Peilan: good point. If you guys are ever hopping on at a sales call, let's say Yeah. The goal shouldn't actually be for you.
To talk yourself up, but more for you to help the client that you wanna work with. Paint a picture of like where they want to be and how you are gonna be that person to help them get to where they want to be. Hundred percent. Like you kind of wanna ask them what are your goals, what's currently working and what's not working?
Right? Rather than, it's not really an opportunity for you to toot your own horn. Like it's not, oh, I did this and I has that and I've got this girl and that girl. Like they don't really care. They care. Them getting to where they want to be. Exactly right. Not you as the person. And if you
Sivan Weitz: can get them to answer that first, you can then figure out your answer based exactly on how can I best help you?
And one thing that I always ask, Maybe not in an interview, but in a first call with a client, but it could be in an interview too, is what is your ultimate goal with your, let's say, social media? Cuz that's what I do with your social media. And I'll give them kind of the options. I'm like, it can be a beautiful gallery, it can generate leads, or you can educate and I'll give them those three options or whatever.
And then they ha, they sometimes they haven't even thought about it and they're like, oh, I don't even know. And they're like, I wanna be this. I'm like, great, this is how I can help you get there. And so you lead them into it because a lot of people maybe don't know the answer to that or haven't really taken the time to do that.
So then you are app proving your expertise on the topic. . Cuz you know those are the three things that they can do. And then you tell them that you can help them get there and it's just like great. Yeah.
Emily Peilan: And also just like showing that you actually have thinking and strategy behind. Creative work, and it's not just like making beautiful things for, to make beautiful things Right, which is great, but like having strategy behind it, that's something that could go on, on a whole other tangent.
But with my social media, it's like I spend, yeah, it's been hot, cold, hot, cold, but a lot of times I felt like it was just pretty ness and not always so much strategy behind it. Or sometimes I was lazy on the strategy. And the same with websites as well. You can have a pretty website.
It's not perhaps actually helping somebody accomplish the goal that they want to accomplish and like really bringing it back to strategy and like the goal and helping them get there. Right. Right. Yeah. Amazing. So let's wrap this up, shall we? Yeah, yeah. So you're coming back into freelance and super exciting.
Yes. For anyone who's thinking about working with you wanna check out your work. Yeah. How can people find.
Sivan Weitz: Yeah, so you can go to my website, which is Emily's template. So double whammy. It's sivan whites.com. My first and last name.
Emily Peilan: Oh, link it in the show notes below. Yeah, you find
Sivan Weitz: it.
Yeah. Not common name, but yeah, if it's there yeah, check there. And super open to working with people right now. So what
Emily Peilan: kind of, do you wanna share a little bit on what kind of clients that you are actually looking to
Sivan Weitz: work? Yeah, I mean I think that those like small to medium sized businesses, like we spoke about, my kind of industries I'm most passionate about, I would say is, I say lifestyle, but that's such a broad term.
Yeah. But within that travel, hospitality, food and beverage clothing, boutiques, like those kind of things I love. I live in Chicago, so if there's any Chicago local you know, and I can actually be physically in person. I love that. Anything under that market. And then also creatives. I love working with bloggers, you know, website designers like Emily, photographers, those kind of people.
So I guess those two. Yeah.
Emily Peilan: Amazing. Yeah. So good, so good. Last question I ask all my guests this what does it mean for you to have a free world and soulful
Sivan Weitz: life? Oh, I love that. I actually feel like getting back. Whole freelancing was part of me finding freedom again. . But I, what does it mean to have free
Emily Peilan: wealth, soul life, it look like, yeah.
Sivan Weitz: I think just never feeling stuck and always knowing that you can pivot. I think that is true. Freedom is knowing. You can always change your situation. If you get a job that you hate, you can quit. If you move to a new country that you hate, you can leave. You're never stuck. And I think people forget that often and I try to live that way and it allows me to take more risks and more chances cuz I'm never afraid of the outcome cuz I know I can always change it.
That's like super
Emily Peilan: empowering. Yeah. As well. Yeah. Amazing. Aw, thank you so much for this conversation. Thank you. I love this. Me too.
So if you are interested in checking out Sivan's work, I have linked her Instagram and her website down below. She is currently open to inquiries, so if you wanna work with her, like get in quick she is just the most efficient, incredible human ever. Like you will not regret working. Highly, highly recommend.
If you enjoyed this episode, I would love for you to take a screenshot and share it on on Instagram and tag me at Emily Peilan or at Aroha visuals. Otherwise just, I would love for you to think of two people who are freelancing who would benefit so much from this conversation and to send.
Episode to them that let's you know, let's keep the conversation going. Let's share the love. It means so much to us as a growing podcast. We really grow based on referrals, and I just love sharing these. These conversations with you and I would love to continue doing so. So, yeah, thank you so much for your support.
It means so much to me and I look forward to sharing many, many more with you and hope you have the most beautiful day. I will see you in the next one…
