#25: How I Handle Legal Contracts When I Can’t Afford To Hire Expensive Lawyers (Ft. Nina Marino)
Episode Shownotes
Are you a freelancer, entrepreneur, or creative who avoids thinking about contracts because it seems scary, overwhelming and complicated?
Our guest for today's episode, Nina Marino, shares how important it is to have contracts in place, especially when you're just starting out or growing your business. Nina, a lawyer who left her corporate job to travel the world, now helps online entrepreneurs protect their businesses with custom contracts and DIY templates.
In this episode, she talks about the importance of understanding your own boundaries and communicating them clearly, why contracts are crucial for avoiding disagreements and resentment with clients, and how to modify your contracts as your business grows. Tune in for some valuable insights and tips on how to protect your energy and your business with contracts.
Main Points:
Why contracts are important for online entrepreneurs and creatives
How to set boundaries and communicate them clearly
The third strike policy and other important clauses to have in your contracts
Why it's important to reassess and update your contracts as your business grows
The Importance of Contracts
Contracts are crucial for avoiding disagreements and resentment with clients. As Nina explains, "You cannot assume that everybody in the world has the same intentions as you. People might not even intend to hurt you, but maybe they're really bad with deadlines." Having a contract in place with clear expectations and consequences can help manage those situations.
Communicating Boundaries
One of the most important aspects of contracts is setting and communicating clear boundaries. Nina emphasizes the need to understand your own boundaries and communicate them clearly. She recommends having a third strike policy in your contracts, giving you the ability to be nicer than what your contract says. However, if someone continues to cross your boundaries, you can enforce penalties or fees.
Updating Contracts
As your business grows and changes, it's important to reassess and update your contracts. Nina advises that you should update your boundaries and reassess your contract at least once a year, if not twice a year. Updating your contract can help you take all of the things that give you "the ick" and put them into your contract for next time.
Contracts might seem intimidating, but they're essential for protecting your business and your energy. By understanding your own boundaries, communicating them clearly, and updating your contracts regularly, you can avoid disagreements and resentment with clients. As Nina says, "The right companies will respect that because if they are a very professional brand, they will respect that. They see someone else being professional."
Nina Marino
✨ Follow Nina on social media at https://www.instagram.com/ninathelawyer/
🎧 Listen to her podcast at Non-Negotiable Success
💜 Find out more about her at https://ninathelawyer.com/
Let’s continue the conversation at https://www.instagram.com/emilypeilan/
Meet fellow Freedom Nomads on a unique retreat experience, join here: https://www.freewildsouls.com/retreats
Create more freedom by learning how to attract more website traffic and ideal clients with my free Website & SEO checklists: https://www.arohavisuals.com/resources
Episode Transcript
Emily: Hello, my beautiful friend and welcome back to another episode. Today we have Nina Marino, who is a lawyer, moved from New York to live her best life, soaking up the sun and the surf in Mexico. She quit her job in 2018 to travel the world and along the way, Online entrepreneurs who had no access to legal protections.
So she opened up a virtual law firm and contract template shop to help business owners protect their energy and their businesses. And since then, her custom contracts and DIY templates have served over like 700 business owners, saving people tens of thousands in legal fees and lost revenue. In today's conversation, we talk about why contracts are so important and how she came to create her, her template shop, and we also explore like what led her to travel the world, what led her to quit her job in her law firm in New York, and.
Find her community and find her place in Mexico. So I really enjoyed this episode and I hope you do too. I will see you on the other side.
So I'd love to start off with, Where you were before and so you studied law, you were a lawyer and you were working a corporate job. Yeah. What was life like then and what kind of triggered you to change that lifestyle?
Nina: So I grew up in New York and I've been in New York for a really long time. for the first 27 years of my life.
I. Every weekend and my whole life revolves around Manhattan and the city. And I didn't really picture anything else for myself. And I started to, as I grew up, meet other people who, you know, obviously come from all over the world to go to New York. And so for a really long time I didn't really think about traveling in the same way that I do now.
I had a diverse world at my fingertips and I was meeting people from all over the world who came to New York and said, this is the best place. This is the best place ever. There's no need, need to leave. This is like the best city. You know, I might be biased or whatever. I don't believe it's the best city anymore.
But I was always just kind of taking that as face value. Like, oh, okay, if everybody else is coming here, then there's really no reason to. But simultaneously, you know, social media was starting to, to blow up and really expose you to other places that maybe you wouldn't have thought about going to.
Right? So social media is a double-edged sword because it does give a lot of exposure to places that kind of lose some of its charm. But at the same time, it gives you this exposure to say, oh, I look like I could be safe there, or I look like I could. Research more about that and maybe go there. So all throughout my twenties, I always explored the us.
I was going on road trips, I was going out west, I was skiing, I was doing different things. But then it wasn't until then, I had a lot of other friends from New York who were, you know, digital nomads and they were going in 50 different countries and everything that said, no, Nina, you could do it too. And I started to kind of have this travel bug that couldn't be itched and I wasn't taking any vacation working in a, as a lawyer in Manhattan, I wasn't getting much time off.
So eventually it got to the point where this itch could not be scratched anymore. I had some friends planning a trip to Thailand and my company was really upset that I was taking off a Thursday the whole next week, and then a Monday of the following. and they were like, you're gone for three weeks. I'm like, no, it's not three weeks.
It's 10 days where it's like, it's seven work days. Right? It's 10 days. But they, in their head they're like, it's three weeks. Cuz that's the mindset people have in New York. There's people who don't really travel like that, like they do if you grow up elsewhere. And so I quit my job. I was like, okay, well the universe lined up.
Things happened, like my lease was expiring. I had paid a double security deposit because I had really, really bad, like I didn't have any credit before, you know, and I was like building up and I was always living paycheck to paycheck. So I paid a double security deposit. So that means that my last two months of rent were paid for.
I got like a Christmas bonus and a raise right before I quit. And all these other things were just like lining up. My car got totaled right before I left, so I had a choice between getting a new lease in Manhattan or buying a car or doing so. I was just like, you know what? Screw this. There's so many things happening that's showing me that.
I have the freedom right now to travel and I can, I was concerned about maybe people not taking me seriously if I wanted to come back and work in Manhattan, but I also thought, oh, well, maybe I don't need to, and maybe this will give me something really good to talk about, or, I don't know. I just tr put a lot of trust in it and things just lined up.
I had quit my job, went on that trip to Thailand with my friends and extended it. Went to Bali and I went to Perth in Australia and I went all throughout the west coast of the US again in Mexico. And that 10 day trip turned into four and a half months of traveling. And then from there it just was nonstop
Emily: amazing.
And in those like four and a half months, was it vacation? Like you just completely, you gave yourself that time to just enjoy. and then you might have had some ideas to start
Nina: your own thing. Great. Great question. So I had ideas of what I wanted to do because at the time I noticed I had always practiced yoga and practiced mindfulness, and I always prioritized my health and my fitness all throughout my career, which made me kind.
Different than other people I was working with at the time, like it was, it was starting to become more mainstream to, you know, go to fitness classes during your work breaks in Manhattan, but it was just kind of popping up. So simultaneously, I was also seeing this, the rise of the influencer community because,
I was like, how are all these people getting to go to all these workout classes all day full-time on Instagram? Like, what do they do for work? You know, we all kind of had that thought when we didn't really know what influencers did. Yeah. So that was happening at the same time. And then when I had quit, I thought, well, maybe I can start something like that, like a wellness brand for lawyers.
So I went into that thinking. That in my travels. But along the way, I was staying at hostels and meeting people who were working and they were freelancers. They were Lance graphic designers or food bloggers or something, and they would always say, oh, you're a lawyer. I know so many people who need contracts, or, this situation happened to me and I didn't have a contract, and it was so crappy.
And so they really kind of inspired me to go. to what I knew. Mm-hmm. . But it still took me like a whole nother year after that to really act on it because I was really committed to the wellness brand that didn't really go anywhere. Lawyers were not ready for it back then. This was like 2018, so it was like a little bit too early.
Right. It was before Covid and everything, so I then kind of was. Forced by my friends or inspired by my friends. I was meeting on my travels to then become a lawyer for digital nomads and online entrepreneurs, which is what I do today. So it was really, really inspiring that trip, even though I didn't go into it working at all.
Emily: Yeah, I love that. And how, you know, the right people just get put into your path and you're just like, ah, like here, here's this thing. Just like staring at you. And and yeah, so I love your brand because it is, you know, contracts and legal advice for freelancers, entrepreneurs creatives as well. And one of the things that, you know, as a creative myself and a lot of designers in my field, something I notice a lot is that we.
Not that we're avoidant, we just, yeah, maybe . It just seems so kind of a lot and really overwhelming to think about contracts and what could happen if this and that. And we kind of just wanna stay in our world of like, just creating. And so I think a lot of creatives. , however, how important it is to have contracts in place.
And usually we start having contracts in place when something bad actually happens. And it's like, how can you prevent that in the first place by having it in your contracts? So yeah, and then also then growing. For my, myself, like I'm getting into a stage where I'm hiring team members and I'm not quite sure what goes into it, like non-disclosure agreement, and.
You know what, like confidentiality, all these things, and I learned so much actually just reading through your contracts and like you type out, you've got like this like Google Doc and you'll like explain what each paragraph is for and like why you have this clause in and I'm like, oh, this is so great.
So yeah, so grateful to have come across you and your work and things that you do.
Nina: Yeah, thank you. And I know it's really difficult to put yourself in the shoes of thinking that something's bad ever gonna happen because you're like, oh, well I'm, a lot of people have imposter syndrome about it, right?
Where they're like, I'm just starting out, or I'm not making enough money, or like, I'm not important enough. Or maybe later I have to worry about that because there's just a stigma around it. But really it's when. , I feel like actually it's when you're just starting out and when you're really, really growing and established that you need them the most, there is gonna be periods of your business where you feel kind of like you have everything under control, but those aren't growth stages.
Those are stages where you're like comfortable, but in the stages where you're really, really growing, you're going through growing pains, we've all heard that term, growing pains and. But like growing pains are the reason you need contracts because you're gonna meet people who just want to take advantage of you because they think you're just starting out.
So you should be doing everything for them, right? Or you're gonna see people who see you do like succeeding even if you don't see it yourself. And maybe they're team members or people you're collaborating with who kind of wanna just ride your coattails and take advantage of you. Yeah. And take your ideas.
Or take your designs. Yeah. So I see it all the time, like you cannot assume that everybody in the world has the same intentions as you. And also people might not even intend. To hurt you, but like maybe they're really bad with deadlines. Like I've been in that position before too, where I'm like, crap, I didn't mean to hurt you, but I see how I'm maybe delaying something.
So you know what? I'll do you a favor and I'll do this extra thing for you. Or I'll go above and beyond. But if you don't, if you don't have that kind of like inner moral compass to make things right for people, then you know. Then, yeah, a few people older, right? Yeah. So it's great to have contracts, and I always say your contract should have your third strike policy in there, so you can always be nicer than what your contract says, because let's say someone misses a deadline or something, you can say no big deal, like, You know, I just send it to me today and we can move forward with the timeline.
I know for designers it's probably really important. Yeah. Because you need to stick to a timeline so you can know how many clients to take. Yeah. You could always be nice and, and let someone, you know, maybe the week, maybe the project takes like a week longer than it should, right. Yeah. But if someone keeps doing it again and again, then you would want like your third strike policy in the contract.
Like, okay, I let it slide two times, but now there is going to be a penalty, like you're gonna have to pay this extra fee because now. , it's pushing back my other client work or taking a spot away from a client that I would've had. Exactly. So that's something that you could think
Emily: of. Yeah, and that's, I like that's something that's happening to me right now.
Actually. Some of the clients that are, didn't get their what they needed ready and now we're having to push back to January and now everything is kind of having to be pushed back a little bit as. So that's fun. And another thing as well, it's like when you start growing to, or you start taking on bigger clients, e-commerce clients, bigger projects, and there's more moving parts, there's more like people kind of, having a say.
Then things start to get complicated and that's kind of like a part of the growing pains. And you might have a contract that was perfect for one-on-one clients and then as you grow, you might actually need to modify. as well,
Nina: right? Yeah. And another thing is too, like.
Boundary you could put in there is having only one point of contact, right? So like if you're dealing with a company that has like someone who wants to approve of the packaging and someone else who wants to approve of the website, you can say like, I don't care what you need to do on your end, but I can't have like three people talking to me all at once.
And that still is your responsibility to get it done on my timeline, cuz this is, you're hiring me and my contract says that this is the timeline and there are going to be penalties and like fees for you being late and pushing back. And you know, it, it all comes with confidence. But I think that the right companies will respect that because if they are a very professional brand, they will respect that.
They see someone else being professional. Don't get me wrong. Like we all make these mistakes. Like even in my law firm and even in the people I hire sometimes, like learning how to manage other people and learning how to work with other people is a lifelong lesson. And so you are always going to have to reassess your boundaries and update your contracts.
Maybe every client, right? But I always try to update my boundaries and reassess like my, my Contract like at least once a year, maybe twice a year. Mm-hmm. . Because I think it's important, like to take all of the things that give you the ick, you know, that phrase like the ick . Take all things that are giving you the ick and put it into your contract for next time.
Don't take it out on like the person who. is doing that to you because if it's not in your contract or you never said that it was your boundary, then like they really don't know. And people are gonna get away with what they think they can. Yeah. Not because they're manipulative, but again, they might not know that they are pushing one of your boundaries.
Right, exactly.
Emily: And then like when you, then you can be more confident and bold in your communication cause you have it in your contract. But if you don't, where it. A little bit obscure, kind of like fluffy and could be misinterpreted. Then they could kind of like argue back and then that's when you are kind of like, oh, they're kind of right.
I'm kind of right. So like having that like really like Plains Day in your contract actually gives you the confidence to really back yourself. .
Nina: Right. And it's funny cuz a lot of people are afraid of coming off too strong or too like bitchy I'll say like for having something in a contract. But the only times I've ever felt like, or I've gotten into kind of like disagreements with people that.
Made me like think, oh, I could have handled that differently. Or when I did not be clear in my boundaries upfront. And I let things slide and I let things slide. And then by then I was so resentful that I kind of like not lash out, but I'm like, okay, this is not cool anymore. Like this is like not okay.
This is not okay. And for the other person they might think like, wow, what a like crazy person. Cause it's coming out of almost nowhere. Yeah, right. But in my head, it's. I not set boundaries upfront, so it made the situation worse, whereas if I set my boundaries up upfront and I was assertive upfront, Well, if anyone's going to blame me for saying my boundaries, well no, you are the crazy person.
Cuz it was right here in the contract. It was right here in all of my previous emails. Yeah. You weren't listening to me. You weren't ignoring me. You know? So, yeah, it's okay to feel better like walking away from a situation of someone who you know is disrespecting you versus like a situation where you're like, Ooh, that could have gone differently.
Cuz I could have, you know, maybe not burned that bridge if I was better at communicating. what I expected from Yeah, the
Emily: beginning. Yeah, totally. And I think contract, I just, I now see contracts as a way of like communicating things that I might feel uncomfortable saying in person, but it's just like that's there and then you're just like,
Nina: Yeah, exactly. That's why I say like, if you're someone who's really hates confrontation, yeah, you need contracts even more because you're gonna. More difficult confrontation if like your boundaries are not said anywhere and you have to say them to someone for the first time. Yeah. You know, like you
Emily: probably won't as well and you'll just let them, I don't know, walk all over you, which is
Nina: even worse.
Yeah, exactly. So if you hate confrontation, you need contracts because they're expected to read them. And if I, if they sign them, then it's expected that they've read them, they agreed to it, they signed it, and then you could just point to it and not have to really say much in your communication. Aside from like, you know, just wanna remind you this section of the contract, so, Yeah, we really need to stick to the timelines.
Let me know though, if there's anything I can do to help you meet these timelines. Like you can be more compassionate too. Yeah. And people will generally be receptive of it. Yeah. There's always gonna be those people who, who try to gaslight you, but those people are gonna exist regardless. Yes,
Emily: yes. Yeah.
Actually what about this idea, like, one of the things. I struggled with when looking for contracts was a lot of them were only applicable to the states. Or there was always a clause and I always felt like, okay, I need something that's a bit more like international. So like, I think your, your contracts are quite like fluid, like you can be anywhere in the world.
because most of your clients are quite international as well. So like what is that like? What if for people looking for contracts, like what should they look for if they are international and then they have an international based client?
Nina: So there's a section in the contracts that is called choice of law or governing law.
So in there you put, cause I get a lot of. Asking like, well, what if I'm in the state and my clients are in another state? Or what if I'm in this country and my clients are in another country? You put whatever law governs the contract in the contract. So it's a red flag for me if I see a contract that doesn't put that, cause it's like, well this contract's really not valid then cuz what laws apply, right?
It doesn't really, there's no way to enforce it. Right? So if you are, if you are based. , you know, I know you said you're based in Portugal, but you also have roots. Malta. Malta. Well, yeah.
Emily: So where would it, so would it be where your business is based then, is then where the governing law
Nina: would be? Well, you could technically, I mean like you could probably say Portugal if you wanted, cuz you have roots there.
But I would always say like, go where with where your business is registered. Just cause it's gonna be easiest, you know, like I'm in Mexico now, but everything for my business is based in New York still. So I'm gonna pick New York because it's very convenient for me. Maybe not to go down to the courthouse, but it's convenient for me because that's where my bi business is registered.
you know, I can find like a lawyer there easier than in Mexico and,
Emily: and you also know the law there. Exactly. Practice law there. So you are familiar with
Nina: it. Yeah. So that's what you would do. And then even if your clients in Australia, it doesn't give them like, An out. They can't. I feel like a lot of people think like, oh well they can't enforce it cuz I'm in this country.
Like that's not true at all because if you don't show up, like let's say I take action against someone in Australia, in New York and they don't show up, it will still be like a mark against their business. Like get a judgment against their business. And that could affect any money that they make in the states.
Like then I would have a judgment against them. I would have a lien against. Their business, so it could affect like the money that they're making, their opportunity to do business there. If they don't have a business registered, it could affect. your ability to come to the states or be in the States or whatever.
Right. So, yeah, not, it's not always like that clear, like these are like really extreme examples, but you do still get, you, the law still does apply to you even if you are somewhere else. Mm-hmm. because the contract says these are the laws that apply. So you just wanna be careful even when signing contracts too you know, generally, just make sure when you're signing contracts that you're taking them seriously, because I think a lot of people don't, since it's very international, this online business.
But you're not gonna get away like. Like free and clear if you are the type of person, I don't think anyone listening to this podcast is the type of person, but you know, a lot of people think like, oh, well they're over there, they'll never catch me. But that's not really the case. Like there are ways to enforce laws against you even if you are not in the country.
Emily: Yeah. Minute. Yeah. And if they want to, they totally can. If they have the money and they want to. Depends. Yeah. So what about somebody who's. Fully nomadic at the moment. They're like, okay, I spent three months here. I spent three months here. They are freelancing. They don't really have, you know, I say an official business set up.
Maybe they're a sole trader somewhere. They don't really have a residency anywhere at the moment. They're not a tax resident anywhere. Where would they be based then the citizenship? Like where they have citizenship? Yeah. Yeah.
Nina: Would be where they would have to be based, because I always say also like if you're going to.
Say, oh, I'm fully nomadic. I don't have a home, I don't have an address, I don't have this, I don't have, you have no way to we reach me. Well, as a client, why would I wanna work with you? Because that doesn't give me any protection. So I'm not gonna trust you. I'm gonna go with the person who has an address and who has a business registered.
So I understand the lifestyle and trust me, I know it's annoying cuz like the way the world works hasn't fully caught up to it. But. It is going to impact you and your reliability and your reputation and your trustworthiness. If you don't have any way for people to feel secure working with you.
People wanna feel safe with their investment and it's up to you to make the sacrifice of, okay, I will have to register my business in Dubai or wherever. Yeah. To make people feel like. A good investment to make. Right? It's going to roll you back. Yeah, you might, it might be okay for freelancing in the beginning, but as you grow and as you wanna take on higher paying clients, you need to provide a higher paying value.
And part of that is like, Hey, this is where you can reach me. This is where I'm reliable. And make them feel very secure in choosing you, because at the end of the day now, especially more than ever, there's more competition than ever. So you need to use like the client experience and. people's ability to interact with you as the differentiating factor.
Absolutely.
Emily: Like trust is absolutely like the, the currency of business as well. And transparency. Yeah. Yeah. I love
Nina: that. But I get, it's so annoying. Like even, even in state. Even in the states, like, forget leaving different country, but it's like, Okay, I have to have a driver's license in New York. And then what if I wanna get a car when I'm in California, or then I have to get insurance here and then like this.
It, it just, I get it. Trust me, it's so annoying. But just meet with someone who. Can really help you. Like I have a friend who does international tax law and she does meetings. They're, they're in an investment, but from everyone I've referred her to, they say it's worth it. Where she will help you as digital nomad figure out like where to set up your business and The best way for you to have like as little taxes as possible and, and she's great.
Emily: So that's amazing. Honestly, LA I met someone like that recently as well and I was actually gonna move my business to Portugal and then he suggested moving it to Malta. And it is an investment as well, but when I worked out some of the numbers, I'm like, the amount I would save on taxes. I could have already made that back by investing it and moving it to Malta.
Yeah. So sometimes it's like, yes, it's an investment to get that knowledge upfront, but in the years to come, you're gonna make that back, like Yeah,
Nina: exactly. Time's over. Well, yeah. So if you are someone who really wants this nomadic lifestyle, definitely think about that because then. , you will have it all just set up for you like
Emily: you want.
And it's so confused. Like for me, the taxes have been the biggest pain because it's like, where are you based and where are you and your business and everything. So I over my head, definitely get somebody who is like not just a tax advisor or like normal. Employee people, but like really somebody who specializes in like expats and digital nomads cuz they're more Yeah.
Aware and familiar with like international laws.
Nina: Yeah. And these kinds of things will give you peace of mind so that cuz these kinds of things will, will. Unintentionally hold you back from taking on bigger paying clients or treating yourself as, instead of just like a solo printer and a freelancer as like an agency or a business owner or whatever your goals are because you're like, oh, well I can't do it because of this, and I don't know, it's too hard.
And you know, I go through that too. But then once you make the decision to. I'm gonna take things seriously and that starts with like figuring out the logistics, the tax stuff, the legal stuff. Yeah. I promise you it's like an instant mindset shift. It's like if you believe in the law of attraction and that stuff, you will attract Yeah.
More to you because now you've set up the foundation properly. Yeah. That is
Emily: the phase that I'm currently in. Actually. I like recently decided I was going to, You know, do this and take the leap. And so much has kind of like cascaded from that where I'm having to take radical responsibility for like just finances, cash flow and, and really like seeing it and being more into that kind of like c e o rather than that freelancer solopreneur mindsets no longer fun and games.
It's like, okay, time to get serious with shit. And it's been
Nina: great. Yeah, and then that's when like the serious, you know, Fun happens too, right? Yeah. You say likeon like fun. People think fun is just fun. Like no fun takes responsibility, fun takes planning. If you want this digital nomad lifestyle, like there is a level of planning, like where you're gonna get health insurance, you know, don't be that person who doesn't have health insurance then gets in a surf accident or.
Something and then you're screwed and you have to go home to your parents if you even have that opportunity because you don't have any money now or something. Or you know, like fun takes responsibility, fun takes planning. The more planning you put in or the more responsible you could be, the more research you could do, the more fun you'll have.
Because the more peace of mind you'll have, the more you'll be prepared. So definitely what you see on Instagram and what you see other people are doing is not real like I live. Lifestyle where I'm hanging out with a lot of surfers and we go on, you know, maybe we've gone on surf trips and things. Well guess what?
It took a lot of research to figure out like where those surf spots are and like, can we drive through those parts of Mexico and where are we gonna stay and what kind of boards do we need? Like, I see them researching like, what are the tides gonna be like, what's the gonna be like? Like everything like the, your idea.
Is not chill. Yeah, yeah. Like what you see as chill. Like those people put in a lot of time to have that chill lifestyle. So definitely just know nobody gets soft scotch free, even if you're like a trust fund kid. . Yeah. . Unless you're a trust fund kid. I don't know. I don't know. No,
Emily: no, no. And I don't think anyone listen thing is either.
But yeah, one of the things I came to realize this year is that structure and planning actually gives you more freedom when you have. You know, container, then you get to be fully free in it. Resting assured that it, it's got you, you know, if you fall trampolines there to catch you, you've built it, this kind of safety for yourself as well to really have fun in.
Nina: Yeah. Yeah, and I think that too, because I also like to plan ahead and then have that freedom later. Yeah, I do that with my content. I do that with like, you know, setting up the digital products. So I sell contract templates, but it took me like months and months and months of planning and then months and months lately of revising them.
Like I wanted to have them launched last month, but it's probably gonna be the end of this month, all of my updates. Yeah. Because then I know then I'll have another few years of freedom cuz I'll like added more to the integrity of what I'm selling and, you know, increase the value and, and that will. the money maker later on.
Right? But I need to put in all that time, and that takes trust in yourself, but you are not gonna have that trust without planning. I also think that I can be somewhat of a procrastinator. Yeah. But when I procrastinate to do things like go to the beach or whatever, I am stressed. the whole time because of what I know I could be doing, whether that's updating my contracts or figuring out this financial thing or that client project or whatever it is.
Whereas if I were to just plan ahead, then that free time might become later on, but it's gonna be more rejuvenating and more fun. Cause I'm not gonna be stressed from all the things like the open loops in my brain about, oh, I don't, I don't know where I'm gonna pay taxes this year. I don't know. . My contracts are like, that's gonna ruin your fun.
Promise you Yeah. You're gonna be stressed. Yeah.
Emily: So then when you're like out playing, you get to just fully enjoy, be present playing instead of like thinking of all the things that you should be doing. Yeah. Yeah. I feel that. So at the moment, are you fully 100% like just selling templates or are you also like doing one-on-one and advising people like legally as.
It's
Nina: a bit of, yeah. I work with people one-on-one, mostly their clients from the US one-on-one. But my contract templates can be used kind of anywhere because they're a DIY option. So people, you know, it's better than starting from scratch. Yeah. Or maybe they come from a place where there's not a lawyer in their area who understands.
Working online or being a coach or being a international like freelancer, whatever. So they use my templates as a great starting point, right? So I have those options, but I also work with some people one-on-one. And I still do mostly like contracts for them because you're gonna know also the difference in your business as to like, I have these lawyer drafted templates.
great. They're better from, than starting from scratch and trying to write them yourself. Because I do think that I put in things that maybe you're not gonna think of. Yeah. Even though you know your business better than anybody else, you're not thinking like a lawyer in that moment. You're thinking of your business, your experience.
Whereas I have from. All of my years of experience and all the people I meet, I hear everybody's stories. So I put those into the templates to think of things that maybe you haven't thought of or you haven't experienced. Knock on wood, right? Yeah. Because it's not usually good. And then I, I say those are really good for a certain, you know, stage of your business or a certain area of your business, but you're always gonna know in your intuition like this, this thing that I'm working on now.
there's a lot riding on it. This collaboration or this opportunity, or, I really wanna have, you know, I've worked and I've used these templates, I've had this offer for several years, but now am really looking to up level and I want like someone's eyes on it. You're gonna know in your heart, like when you want an extra pair of eyes and that custom support on your business.
That's the, the situations where I work with people more one-on-one. And it could be at any point of the business, it could be them just starting out. Mm-hmm. , they wanna make sure they have everything in a row. Or it could be like three years into business or more. It doesn't really matter, but follow your intuition.
No, you know, I am at the point. I know that I don't know because in the beginning I see people, they have their own basic contracts. They wrote themself, or they're not using a contract. They don't even have the money to invest in like one of my templates or a lawyer's template or something. Right. That's that's gonna happen for people, right.
But they're also at the point where they're so new that they don't know what they don't know. And then you're gonna get enough experience, good and bad to know, like, mm-hmm , I don't know what I don't know. So can you help me out? So I think that's a good. You know, I don't, I'm not in the business of just like making people constantly hire me again and again.
Cuz guess what? I wanna live a free lifestyle too. I don't wanna be on the phone all day. Yeah. , I'd rather you buy a template, feel good, feel empowered, and then come to me when you really need my help. I don't wanna be sitting at my desk billing you for like 10 hours of work, because I don't wanna do 10 hours
Emily: a week.
Yeah, yeah. And that's why I, I will. Yeah. And that's why you also put so much like, , notes like little memos and notes as well in your template. Like you've got a workbook and you've got a template, and I think you get so many like questions that you're like, I'm just gonna put everything in here so people don't have to come and ask me.
And then you don't have to bill them and,
Nina: yeah. Yeah, because also, like, I don't think you should always have to go to a lawyer either, because you should be, as a business owner, as a C E O, able to do some degree of negotiation by. Right. So you should be able to think about the deals that you're doing and the different situations you get in, and be able to make small updates to your contract by yourself.
You should be able to. Really think about what someone's saying to you and like, use your intuition and use your negotiation skills to say, do I want that? Do I not want that? Do I trust them? Do I not trust them? Those are skills that you need to develop by yourself, and so it's not helpful the way lawyers.
used to typically work where they weren't educating you on what your contract says. They were just handing it to you, right? They weren't like giving you the tools you need to succeed on your own. They were setting you up so that you always had to come back to them. But I don't really, that's not my business model, that's not my philosophy, and it never has been.
So I feel like there's definitely a degree of independence that I want the people that work with me to have, and. Really believe that like you should be able to do a certain level on your own. And I try to have my templates help with that. But there's also situations where it's res irresponsible to do certain things on your own or it's gonna make you feel like not as confident because, oh crap, like I should have had my lawyer look at that before I signed it because maybe you're gonna get a brand deal or something.
Where you're gonna get a contract where it's long time and they want you to not work with any other businesses or any of their competitors, and it really impacts how much money you could make or other opportunities you could take. I wouldn't want that to happen to anyone either. So you have to really use your intuition.
Yeah. Have enough knowledge to know what you could do, but also to know what you can't do on your. .
Emily: Yeah, definitely. And I think there is a general overall shift in the way I think our generation does business, especially like yeah. Creative business, entrepreneurial world. It's like shifting more towards like empowering the people we work with.
Yeah. To yeah, to to just have that knowledge for themselves. And same with me from my websites. A lot of peoples, the traditional way. You come to me, I do the websites, any tweak and anything. If you wanna change a letter, if you wanna change an image, like you have to pay me for that, that time. And for me, it's like, I don't, I don't wanna be doing that, making small tweaks.
And so I record like loom tutorials and I show my clients how to change the image, how to, you know, do a blog post. And I create templates for them to do that as well. And I just think it's a win-win situation for everybody to feel more empowered
Nina: that. Yeah, cuz we live in an information era where everybody can Google anything, right?
You might not be able to Google, you might not be able to have like necessarily the skills or expertise to make it the best version. But you can Google, you know, or watch a YouTube video to explain to you about like, Squarespace or, or a contract or whatever. But that's why you need to, as a business owner also know that people are gonna do that and say, Hey, instead of wasting your time searching for the answers.
Mm-hmm. , let me give you some more answers too, so that at least when you invest in me, you have like a clear, almost customized without paying for the custom Exactly. Resource for you to keep looking at if you need extra questions. And again, .
Emily: Yeah. And it also asks your value as like the, you know, the person who's the, the expert as well in your packages.
Yeah. And you can kind of charge a premium for that because you are giving them everything that they need to know and saving them time and money in the future as well, which is super, super valuable. Yeah. Yeah. So I'd love to kind of like end off with what does life look like for you
Nina: now? So, I'm living in Mexico and.
Really great because I feel like I'm living in a place where I can do everything that I want to do in my day. Mm-hmm. , but I'm still, it's like any kind of growing pain or struggle like. As an entrepreneur or as someone who travels full-time, like you are solely responsible for your schedule. So yeah, decision fatigue is real and wasting a lot of time with decision fatigue.
Do I do this? Do I do this? That's something that I'm working on now, but in general, I live in a place where I can go. And get coffee in the morning. I can wake up on the sunrises. I'm not like sleeping in. I can get a coffee for an hour with a friend and then come back and do a few hours of work, take a break, go to the gym, or go surfing.
Then I can like, you know, get lunch, do a couple more hours of work. So it really is this quote unquote ideal lifestyle. But I wanna also emphasize to people that living this ideal lifestyle still has. Struggles, you still bring yourself wherever you go. So if you're someone who procrastinates or if you're someone who you know, really feels like anxiety a lot, or you feel like you get distracted or have fomo or whatever it is, like you need to still work on those things.
If you have a poor money mindset and you are, you know, not really. You know, those things will come up anywhere. So it is important for you to always still check in with yourself and work on those things that you know, everybody knows what they need to work on. Still work on those things because anywhere you go, those things will follow you.
So even if you are in a place that has everything for you, it's still within you to find your happiness. No amount of money, no business, no lifestyle is going to bring you happiness. You need to make a. , and that's something that I work on every day. Yeah. Is like not letting the little day-to-day things get to me, but making a choice every day to be happy and go towards my.
Oh, that
Emily: is beautiful. And one of my last questions that I was gonna ask was and I asked all my guests this is, what does it mean to live a free, wild and soulful life? But I feel like you kind of just answered that
Nina: as well. Yeah. I think it goes back to the choice. That's what, you know, someone close to me had that conversation with me yesterday.
Like, you have a choice. You know, today might have been a wash. Like I didn't, you know, I had one of those days where you're just like, I just wanna binge watch TV and I don't wanna do work and I don't wanna do this or just wanna eat pizza and whatever. You know, you have, we all have those days and at the end of the day, like feeling really like, ugh, down on myself for not taking advantage of this life that I.
I know I have the potential to create. Someone close to me said like, yeah, but tomorrow you have a choice to wake up again and you have a choice to do the work that you need to do, that you've been procrastinating and you have a choice to, you know, go on a walk if you wanna go on a walk or go surf. So just, you know, make those choices every day.
And love is a choice too, if you're like dealing with relationship struggles or friendship struggles, like everything is a choice. Mm-hmm. . So that, What I think it means to live in a free and soulful world.
Emily: I love that. Such a beautiful to end this episode. Thank you so much for hopping on telling us all about, you know, contracts and for sharing your story.
Super inspiring.
Nina: Thank you. Yeah, thanks for having me. I feel like we really touched on everything that I love to talk about, whether it's having, you know, a digital nomad lifestyle and. Being legally protected and also, you know, being organized and having the time and the mental state to create like, and to, to enjoy what you're creating.
So we really touched on everything, so I love that.
Emily: Such a good conversation.
I hope you enjoyed that episode with Nina and we'd love to know like, was there anything. Surprised you. What were some of your biggest takeaways? Perhaps you know someone who has just started their business and they're, they're stressing a little bit about the contract side of things, or the legal side of their business, and they're needing some help.
Then please do take a screenshot of this podcast episode or just copy the link and send it to them or share it on your stories. We would love to see them and tag you in our stories as well. And of course, if you have any questions about the contracts, about those templates, about the legal side of your business, then I have linked Nina's details and her website down below.
And If you have any questions about websites, branding or seo, how to grow your website traffic organically, then feel free to shoot me over a message or a DM over on Instagram at Emily Peilan or at Aroha Visuals, which is my design account. Thank you so much for listening and we look forward to connecting with you in the next episode.
